Teachers Buzz Sep 18 2007 Transcript
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Region: Boracay (253440, 230656)
Local-Position: (180, 104, 30)
Meeting on 2007-09-18
Those present:
Aurili Oh is in the chair.
Doxbrox Allen: HI. still have mic probs. She was back there at my 4 oclock.
Aurili Oh: k
Aurili Oh: hi all
Mari Asturias: ah LizBet!
Brett Bjornson: hi
Mari Asturias: great!
Aurili Oh: if you would touch the big recorder
Doxbrox Allen: Hi.
Lizbet Larkham: hi, all!
Brett Bjornson has indicated consent to be recorded.
Mari Asturias has indicated consent to be recorded.
CDB Barkley has indicated consent to be recorded.
Aurili Oh: it's a kind of consent to be recorded
CDB Barkley: Legal and all
Jacob Pastorelli has indicated consent to be recorded.
Doxbrox Allen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Aurili Oh: yes
CDB Barkley: We post transcripts on NMC web sites
Lizbet Larkham has indicated consent to be recorded.
Aurili Oh: yes
Aurili Oh: let's sit down shall we
Mari Asturias: on the red seats?
Aurili Oh: yes hehe
Aurili Oh: i expected to use text
CDB Barkley: Back in 3 minutes, have to attend to RL dogs
Aurili Oh: k
Mari Asturias: woof
Aurili Oh: we can't as yet record voice as far as i know
Aurili Oh: hi Kieran
CDB Barkley: yes
Kieran Kiernan: I can hear you.
Doxbrox Allen: K
CDB Barkley: do you wan tus to voice?
Kim Pasternak: hiya - yep.. can hear you
Mari Asturias: yes.. this is Aurili..... oh.. yes?
Lizbet Larkham: Aurili ~ I have to leave around 5:30, ok?
Ashbrook Llewellyn: Would you rather we switch to voice?
CDB Barkley: i can
CDB Barkley: give me 5 minutes to log in with the mac
Kieran Kiernan: Women in RL or in SL ... ? :)
RobertKlein Dogpatch: lol
Doxbrox Allen: Or old like me.
Geofrank Taurog: In terms of understandign the Earth I would say Plate techtonics and continental drift
Mari Asturias: :-D
Aurili Oh: How do you think people in Second Life come to have the skills and knowledge they have?
RobertKlein Dogpatch: Experimenting
CDB Barkley: recording audio
RobertKlein Dogpatch: Determination
Ahlan Oh: By spending a lot of time trying things out
Kieran Kiernan: Do you mean SL skills?
Kena Xeno: they spend alot of time at it
RobertKlein Dogpatch: Patience
Doxbrox Allen: Playful exploration with social support.
Mari Asturias: Asking others
Ashbrook Llewellyn: I've learned the most through individual avatars "coaching" me
Aurili Oh: yes i mean sl skills
Brett Bjornson: Discovery learning
CDB Barkley: Aurili's volume is maxing levels.. might want to lower input volume
Prius Carr: Curiosity.
Kieran Kiernan: Finding an activity that's meaningful to him/her and pursuing it.
Ahlan Oh: something motivates each person to hang out
Ahlan Oh: and try things
Kieran Kiernan: I was one of those people that was "bored" at first, too ... not until I found "something to do" did I take the time to learn about this place.
Ahlan Oh: for some it's the technical challenge, for others it's the social connection
CDB Barkley: a personal "hook" of interest
Kieran Kiernan: (For me it was very much social.)
Kim Pasternak: I think playful engagement is big part of it...
Prius Carr: Finding communities of similar interest was key for me.
CDB Barkley: yes, PLAY
Mari Asturias: Or a shared project with a "tangible" result
Doxbrox Allen: Responsive environment and objects; interaction with peeps.
Ahlan Oh: a long range goal helps
Ahlan Oh: (me at any rate)
Kim Pasternak: and a desire to "influence" the environment...
Kieran Kiernan: To be honest, I think it was the first time I saw someone with truly fabulous hair and shoes when I thought, "Ok, this could be fun."
Mari Asturias laughs
Kieran Kiernan: And I am NOT like that in RL!
Kim Pasternak: No
Kieran Kiernan raises her blinged out hands.
CDB Barkley: not much anymore
Corwin Carillon: not now
Ahlan Oh: used to
CDB Barkley has settled on a doggie do
Doxbrox Allen: Not now. Later maybe.
Aidenn Brooks: Clothes make the man!
Aurili Oh: but you did in the beginning?
CDB Barkley: yes
Corwin Carillon: did at first on and off
Ahlan Oh: more yes
Mari Asturias: yes
Kena Xeno: not too much--but I've been creating about 10 different ones for different purposes
CDB Barkley: yes, lots of time
Jacob Pastorelli: I just started last week and I haven't
Corwin Carillon: have pics someone of various stages of my av
Corwin Carillon: somewhew
Corwin Carillon: lol
Aurili Oh: so you have stages of play with your avi corwin?
Brett Bjornson: I go in streaks - customize for a while, then stop
Corwin Carillon: yes ..
Corwin Carillon: wanted to track what I did
Corwin Carillon: but my motivation is like others ...
Kieran Kiernan: Along the lines of "plork" ... there are many different looks I need for work.
Kieran Kiernan: Sometimes like this, something more "native SL," sometimes all business suit.
Corwin Carillon: task based ..
Kieran Kiernan: Takes a lot of effort to look the part and still feel like "me."
Corwin Carillon: goal focused but with play integral
Aurili Oh: who devises the goals corwin?
Aurili Oh: you or someone else?
Corwin Carillon: me .. my own prof dev goals
Corwin Carillon: what about others?
Ahlan Oh: Sometimes it looks like people are simulating "busy", because maybe it's hard to justify that this is more than just playing around.
Aurili Oh: how much formal learning have done in sl? e.g. workshops
Mari Asturias: It's sometimes to match the perceptions of others
Mari Asturias: If they are professional and new to SL.. I have to adjust
Aurili Oh: in or about sl skills i should say
Kena Xeno: anything related to teaching is definately work (but you can enjoy it)
Doxbrox Allen: Mostly breezy fly throughs--sort of like museum hopping.
RobertKlein Dogpatch: /not sure about the rest of you but I have to deal constantly in RL with budgets to create my classrooms and laering environments plus supplies and the time it takes to set everything up and break it down. SL provided me with a way to circumvent all the pitfalls of reality.
CDB Barkley: A lot of this happens on our own time/dime
Aurili Oh: is that also the case for most of you?
Ahlan Oh: yes
Brett Bjornson: Isn't that always the way with innovations, CDB?
Aurili Oh: as CDB
Ashbrook Llewellyn: yes, entirely on own time/budget
Mari Asturias: not currently.. but before, yes.
Kim Pasternak: yes... paid for my isalnd myself... and I work in SL from hokme as I can't access properly on campus
Jacob Pastorelli: yea/but no money
Zsuzsa Tomsen: for me it's about 50-50
CDB Barkley: I'm not sure its 100% rule for innovations, but the 90% sweat thing, sure
Kena Xeno: yes, about half time on my own
Corwin Carillon: yes on my own budget .. mostly my own time (although right now I am at work)
CDB Barkley: The magic key is how to we get students to a plorky level of engagement
Ahlan Oh: yes, CDB, that's the key
Aurili Oh: What have you noticed about how your students/learners learn?
Brett Bjornson: THis technology is not transparent to the learner - yet
Aurili Oh: that'st interesting bret
RobertKlein Dogpatch: Keeping them engaged is not hard, keeping them focued is another issue
RobertKlein Dogpatch: focused
Kieran Kiernan: Wmen, RobertKlein
Kieran Kiernan: *Amen
Kim Pasternak: Do we want it transparent? Or ot remain critically aware of the technology - purpose driven I suppose?
Kena Xeno: I've taught faculty to use SL and students--and the students were much, much faster
Jacob Pastorelli: yea, I don't think I could really pay attention during a lecture here
Doxbrox Allen: Yes, v distractable.
Aurili Oh: so yo distinguish between engaged and "on task"
Jacob Pastorelli: missing the constant face to face interaction
Brett Bjornson: Transparent as in not worryied about the how, but the what and why
Doxbrox Allen: Yes, engaged does not always = learning.
Brett Bjornson: Too much right now to set up and run SL
Jacob Pastorelli: then again you lose that in a giant 500 student lecture hall too
Mari Asturias: well.. sometimes that's the issue in here: students do not necessarily HAVE a task.. sometimes they are just asked to come and attend
Kieran Kiernan: I would distinguish between the two, yes. Amazing things can be done in here, but it's hard to design amazing things that also meet some stated goal.
CDB Barkley: So they lack a stake in the place
CDB Barkley: ??
Kieran Kiernan: It's easy to get distracted as a student AND as a designer.
Mari Asturias: yes...
CDB Barkley: So pursue some level of ownership in SL place, reputation...
Kieran Kiernan: I was at a lecture today ... nothing but PPT. During the break we were encourage to go and explore ... nobody came back. :)
Mari Asturias: I've seen some amazing things on the Teen grid.. student projects with Global Kids.. but they were empowered to create an authentic project that required real learning AND delivered to a real audience
Aurili Oh: kieran in SL you mean?
Kieran Kiernan: Yes, in SL.
Corwin Carillon: I found out last week we have some students in here of their own accord as they entered McKinsey's Second Life startup competition
Ahlan Oh: in a way, it's like many other technologies that have huge promise, as a learning innnovation or as an efficiency, but at least at first turn out to be very time consuming and experimental in terms of results
Doxbrox Allen: The approach I'm taking with an experimental seminar is to structure a dialog around similarities and difs with real world counterparts and what/why those difs exist. We'll see.
Mari Asturias: oh nice Corwin!
Kim Pasternak: Yes, purpose is important - I also find many students spenbd no time here except in class - so the basic skill set in here has to be learned in class time...
CDB Barkley: that's sweet news, Corwin
CDB Barkley: Worth it to offer some reason to come back beyond class?
Aurili Oh: so kim it sounds like the don't have a sense of owenership here as CDB was saying
Brett Bjornson: Or tools and a task to go with them
CDB Barkley: They are here because it is assigned
CDB Barkley: as much motivation as filling out tax forms
Kim Pasternak: I guess so... also many have no net access at home - or only dial-up - we are taliking Auistralia here!
Aurili Oh: i'm not sure if it's tasks, ownership, skills tools or what
Aurili Oh: that makes them wanna wanna
RobertKlein Dogpatch: Designing learning content in SL requires taking very very very small steps. It is not like other forms of content design. There are not any "broad" strokes.
CDB Barkley: and its not overly prescriptive... ?
Kieran Kiernan: RobertKlein: Designing in SL reminds me of ARG design ... you can't predict where participants will take things.
RobertKlein Dogpatch: If you focus on the high level or take it for granted there is some kind of gap knowledge in place you will be lost.
Corwin Carillon: yes .. they got 40,000 L$ for their startup .. http://vvc.mckinsey.com
Corwin Carillon: sorry lag
CDB Barkley: Yes... I have dreamed of coming up with a compelling ARG! quite a task
Brett Bjornson: Now I know SL is not a game, but drawing on game research - it takes students several WEEKS to become used to the environment, so they can move beyond the basics and really engage
Kieran Kiernan: CDB we need to talk. :)
CDB Barkley: Find me a leap month, sure lets talk
Kieran Kiernan: Keep in mind, though. People today don't mind investing days or even weeks in their online presence.
Kieran Kiernan: Facebook, WOW, etc.
RobertKlein Dogpatch: Right because there is no previous knowledge of an environment we often take for granted.
Kim Pasternak: yep - that aspect of responsiveness to new directions students take is always a bug bear to some - as a Drama tecaher its part very familair territory..
Kieran Kiernan: They all take investment to establish a presence.
Kieran Kiernan: For people ... "ahem" ... middle-aged like me, this is something that can hold us back.
Kim Pasternak: but then the work I'm trying to do is all socially driven - nothing happens in my SL classes unless there are groups roleplaying
Kieran Kiernan: For ... "ahem" ... younger people, not necessarily the case.
Brett Bjornson: You are only as old as your avatar!
Aurili Oh: i'm not sure about the age thing
Aurili Oh: in terms of learning in sl
RobertKlein Dogpatch: Sl adds to any gap knowledge
Aurili Oh: we all are examples of "immigrants" who have become quite skillful wouldn't you say?
Brett Bjornson: Sure
RobertKlein Dogpatch: I watch new residents trying to learn on the orientation islands all day long.
Mari Asturias: not only immigrants.. but in many cases.. NONgamers!
Corwin Carillon: i doubt we are "immigrants" (except in terms of age) in this group
RobertKlein Dogpatch: They can barely get around
Aurili Oh: yes i'm absolutely a non gamer
Aurili Oh: how do you mean corwin?
RobertKlein Dogpatch: They are not stupid, just do not bring much experience in this world
Brett Bjornson: It surprises me how nongamers can't figure out basic navigation
Corwin Carillon: I mean this group is prob a lot more net savvy than a lot of our students
Aurili Oh: personnaly i don't buy the immigrant/native thing as age defined anyway
Kieran Kiernan: Yes. I think my point is that while I have trouble describing SL's "purpose" to my colleagues, some of the younger people in my world (who have grown up with computers as daily tools) ...
Kieran Kiernan: ... are more open to the experience, and don't ever ask, "What's it for?"
Aurili Oh: yes i agree corwin
Aidenn Brooks: Yes, I agree Corwin. I'm way ahead of them - even though they think they're hi tech.
Kim Pasternak: Digital native does not = digital expert -
Aurili Oh: good point kim
Kena Xeno: I've had 18 yr olds ask how this is educational --just last Friday
Kim Pasternak: http://www.gripfixturn.com
Corwin Carillon: they are digital native to a few things (at least in Hong Kong) ...
Corwin Carillon: mobile phones and IM
Corwin Carillon: google
Kim Pasternak: I think Digital Native is a generational attitude... competencies are a different kettle of fish
Aidenn Brooks: My students from the Mainland China are quite tech savvy these days.
Brett Bjornson: USe of a tool <> competency with it
Doxbrox Allen: How many people think that RL experience with art architecture and, say psychology better prepares one for SL than cell phones or laptops.
Aidenn Brooks: Most are into games, so one would expect the 3d environment of SL to be native to them.
RobertKlein Dogpatch: hmm
Kena Xeno: right Doxbrox, I agree
Aurili Oh: hmmm gooiod question dox
Kim Pasternak: I think SL is more engaging if the person themselves is more willing to actively enbgage rather than passively be towed along
Doxbrox Allen: It was a question, not a proposition.
Kena Xeno: 18 yr olds are fast but they don't always have an overview or depth
Brett Bjornson: So guided discovery may be the better approach for them?
Kim Pasternak: many games proviode an extrinsic, external motivational frame... SL requires some purpose (intrinsic) to be really engaging
Aurili Oh: i notice that too kim
Aurili Oh: it's become fun for me because of the friends and social life i've developed
RobertKlein Dogpatch: The purpose of most 3d games is highly focused and task based
Aurili Oh: and i've loearned along the way
Aidenn Brooks: Mmm - good point, Kim.
Doxbrox Allen: What I was trying to get at is the possibility that in some ways understanding the RL might be a better prep for SL than skill in a more fantastic gameworld.
Aurili Oh: well do we agree sl is not a game?
Brett Bjornson: In SL - learning may be spread out over time more than in an educational game
Aidenn Brooks: Agreed.
Aurili Oh: it's a TINOG
RobertKlein Dogpatch: SL is totally a game for some, not for others
Aurili Oh: this is not a game
Aurili Oh: hehe
Kieran Kiernan: hehehe
Aurili Oh: i meana game in having goals and task designed into it
RobertKlein Dogpatch: right
Kim Pasternak: sure... SL is game-like and can be used as a game - but I don't think it is a game... unless we're talking the "Game of Life"
Brett Bjornson: Not in and of itself
Doxbrox Allen: So, for e.g., how many students could draw something (seven simple) in perspective?
Veritas Variscan: Yes, I agree: it's not a game in and of itself, but games can be contained within it. (Sorry I was late.)
Aurili Oh: yes true veritas
Brett Bjornson: Agreed
Doxbrox Allen: That is, how many understand some basics of 3-d worlds ala the Renaissance.
Sendao Goodman: we all understand - it's in our culture
Sendao Goodman: at least in the US
Sendao Goodman smiles and waves hello.
Kim Pasternak: brb... afk
Farley Scarborough: Welcome, Sendao
Jonas Ingrassia: this thread of conversation reminds me of an article by Tateru Nino -- Immersion vs. Augmentation: http://www.secondlifeinsider.com/2007/08/24/immersion-versus-augmentation/
Aurili Oh: tha ks jonas
Veritas Variscan: I will have to read that, thanks for the link.
Farley Scarborough has indicated consent to be recorded.
Kim Pasternak: bak
Aidenn Brooks: We had the 'immersion' discussion int he SLED list recently,..
Veritas Variscan: nods
Aidenn Brooks: I sugested that the existing contents of the student's mind,.. i.e. memory,..
CDB Barkley: It's a grey zone as to what it means....
Aidenn Brooks: will influence their level of immersion in SL..
Veritas Variscan: I don't know why one can't switch back and forth, really
Aurili Oh: So how would describe SL in terms of learning and learners to a colleague who's interested in it?
Aidenn Brooks: So in that sense their experiences in RL is a better prearation for SL than games.. perhaps.
Isa Goodman: I think the basis of the article is that one does Veritas
Veritas Variscan: ah, heh heh
Veritas Variscan: thanks ISa
Veritas Variscan: and at some point the line blurs, too
CDB Barkley: I was at MIT last week- there is some work in the Media Lab intending to connect Rl and SL presences-- so that your Sl will always be "on" - bio feedback stuff
Veritas Variscan: SL is part of my RL
Isa Goodman: Very much so
Sendao Goodman: Yes
Aurili Oh: sl is an extension of my rl as well
Jonas Ingrassia: hmm, I hope LL is ready for that level of concurrency soon ;-)
Isa Goodman: Oh yes
Kim Pasternak: Description of SL expereince is a bit like trying to describe the smell and emotional repsonse to a garden...
Sendao Goodman: Gargoyles anyone? ;)
CDB Barkley: Its way out there
Mari Asturias: I used to play in Sl and work in RL.... now, it's "kind of" the other way around
Aurili Oh: yes true kim
CDB Barkley: So has the playful experience of Sl changed anyone's RL outlooks? (curious)
Veritas Variscan: Same here, Mari
Aurili Oh: mine absolutely
Doxbrox Allen: Sure.
Kieran Kiernan: I'd need to meditate on that, but my immediate reaction is that SL has not changed my RL experience.
Brett Bjornson: It's made me more aware of landscaping, personal appearance....
Brett Bjornson: :)
CDB Barkley: Besides raising your arms up at your side to indicate "Changing appearance" ;-)
Kieran Kiernan: I'm just "programmed" for a fruitful SL experience because of my RL experiences.
Aurili Oh: how can we "convince" others of the importance of plorking?
Kena Xeno: hasn't changed mine much
Kieran Kiernan is envisioning a bunch of students at "Plork U"
Aurili Oh: lol
Doxbrox Allen: It's also changed my perceptions of the RL, sharpened them.
CDB Barkley: I Plork
CDB Barkley: U Plork
Isa Goodman: WIll need some thought on that CDB... dont see it immediately
Aurili Oh: lol
Jonas Ingrassia: I agree Dox
Veritas Variscan: Well, I have realized that I have things in common with people all over the globe. Also, friendships with people from other nations has made me painfully aware of how fortunate I am to live in the U.S., with all of our advantages, even though my politics are not in line with those of the current admin and I have been feeling down about my country.
Isa Goodman: Unless trying to Aly zoom a photoshop image counts
Isa Goodman: Alt
Aurili Oh: really....it's difficult to convey this skill...
Kim Pasternak: I read a lot about LUDIC ENGAGEMENT - that sounds like PLORKING to me
CDB Barkley: It's a tough one to quanitfy- especially for someone who is looking in from the outside
Veritas Variscan: But I have gotten inputs from so many ppl of different nationalities, made me think about things more globally.
Aurili Oh: the relevance of play in learning
Aurili Oh: particularly in sl i think
CDB Barkley: And there is the slippery slope fmor play down to the negative connotations the media puts out there for SL
Aurili Oh: yes isn't that so true
Brett Bjornson: So WHY is SL fun to work in?
Jonas Ingrassia: I would think play would be highly relevant (coming somewhat as I am into the middle of this conversation) because play is a form of relaxation that creates the conditions under which learning happens more freely and easily.
Kim Pasternak: teachers attitudes to ways of learning will always have an influence on how they perceive something like SL I suspect
Aurili Oh: it's creative
Doxbrox Allen: It's important to all mammals, but then there's the shift and the cat pounces for real.
Veritas Variscan: As far as play, I have seen that it is great when trying to get the engagement level up.
CDB Barkley: That questions is "why do we STOP playing" as we "mature"?
Kim Pasternak: doi we?
Veritas Variscan: And it adds to the 'flow'.
Alexondra Zenovka: do we?
CDB Barkley: some
Kieran Kiernan: Speak for yerself, CDB!
Sendao Goodman: it's interesting to see the different elements of the internet that have been tied together here in SL - many ancient MUDs and IRC chatrooms, a particularly notorious internet classroom, and to some extent the modding community have moved here - so you get a wide variety of experiences and capabilities
Kieran Kiernan: ;)
Aidenn Brooks: The ability to build is what engages me.
Aurili Oh: yes i think we do stop playing as adults to some degree
Veritas Variscan: I am guilty of not having enough 'fun', but what's fun changes as one gets older, I think.
Alexondra Zenovka: i agree
Doxbrox Allen: I know lot's of people who are very playful in their later years. Maybe not such risk takers tho.
Sendao Goodman: I'm not as interested in playing .. I'm only 23 but I feel that life is not a game, it is a chance
Kena Xeno: I always thought RL was pretty surreal, so SL just confirmed it--but I probably don't play enough in either
CDB Barkley: It's those middle years when we are supposed ot be "professional",
Kim Pasternak: yep... Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi - FLOW - Optimal Experience...
Sendao Goodman: Aside from the occasional escapist distraction :D
Veritas Variscan: Yes, creation is lots of fun, but meeting new people, that's what's fun for me, listening to their take on things.
CDB Barkley: Flying is kind of nice ;-)
Isa Goodman: Very kind of nice
RobertKlein Dogpatch: Flying is great!
Sendao Goodman: Yes, it's critical with all the synchronization going on
Veritas Variscan loves to jump off tall SL buildings and clifffs.
Alexondra Zenovka: i've tried to find as many professional opportunities as possible that are creative and allow me to play...that's what makes me feel most fulfilled
Isa Goodman: lol V
Doxbrox Allen: Yes, flow. But how much do we explore the boundaries of the flow optimums that MC describes?
Aurili Oh: i dance till the cows come home
Jonas Ingrassia: IM me later Veritas, i'll compare notes wit hyou
Veritas Variscan: I have a continual sense of wonder in here...it never goes away.
Sendao Goodman grins and nods
Alexondra Zenovka: well sadi
CDB Barkley: That;s key, Vertias
Veritas Variscan: laughs
Brett Bjornson: Flow can't happen until the environment is transparent - you just do, not think about how to do
Doxbrox Allen: Yes but what does that do for wonder in the RL?
Veritas Variscan: Yes, brett!
Aurili Oh: i have to admit i don't get to Flow yet in sl, it's more immediate immersion gratification
Jonas Ingrassia: I find SL is like logging in to Burning Man, but I've no idea if that analogy is relevant to anyone here or not.
Alexondra Zenovka: lol
Sendao Goodman: LL griefed burning life!
Veritas Variscan: I have just as much of a sense of wonder when I look into an orange, or at the bottom of a leaf.
Sendao Goodman: They censored one of the nude statues haha
Jonas Ingrassia: lol, I'm afraid I have to agree. I was there. But let's not digress. ;-)
RobertKlein Dogpatch: ?The other day someone hit me in my car and as I stood there in the rain looking at my crumpled car and mentally totalling up the damage I thought. "This sh$T would never have happened in SL." How sad is that?
Jonas Ingrassia: I think that appreciating the effort that goes in to attending to the inclusion of RL details in SL has given me a much greater awareness of their organic occurrence in RL.
Mari Asturias: I find spending too much time in here makes me yearn to do something "real"... with my hands... it's a different type of creativity
Aurili Oh: lol robert
RobertKlein Dogpatch: I mean really
Aurili Oh: i see rl people and think they look like avi's i know
Jonas Ingrassia: lol.
RobertKlein Dogpatch: LOL
Veritas Variscan: ROFL
Kieran Kiernan: Mari, spending too much time in here makes me weird when I talk to people in RL.
Veritas Variscan: that's GOOD
RobertKlein Dogpatch: Not just me!!!
Doxbrox Allen: Bret, I meant when we'vAgrree, Jonas--that's the angle I'm workiing with students.
Kieran Kiernan: I forget about tone and pace and not interrupting and changing the subject and run on sentences and ... you get the idea.
Veritas Variscan: Yeah, when you refer to it as 'RL" out in the world, ppl react strangely, ha ha
RobertKlein Dogpatch: lol
Brett Bjornson: :)
Kim Pasternak: SL provides a new range of experiences that do set you apart from non-SLers when you try to explain them.. I've had that experience severla times with coleagues...
Kieran Kiernan: "How's that thing you do with ... with, um ... that stuff on the computer? How's that coming along?"
Jonas Ingrassia: That's just a matter of being able to switch dances fluidly I think, Kieran. But then I find I do the same in SL as I do in RL in terms of such things
Doxbrox Allen: Great conversation. Thanks.
Mari Asturias: Aside from some of the more racy aspects, I think it really is a different culture.... I assume I can speak with ANYone here...
Jonas Ingrassia: some people find it strange that I will have only one serious IM conversation at a time so I can attend to it fully, for example.
Kieran Kiernan: Yes, I'm not there, yet, Jonas. I need an air lock between SL and RL, still. ;)
Jonas Ingrassia: Mari I think that's one of the wonderful things about SL -- in some ways the hypnosis of class distinctions is eliminated.
Jonas Ingrassia: lol Kieran
Veritas Variscan: hmmm, I don't know about that
Veritas Variscan: I see a certain stratification
Kim Pasternak: But its probably not dissimilar to being a travelleer talking to non-travellers... frames of refernece become more challenging...
Kieran Kiernan: Yes, different class system, but I think there's still one in place.
Jonas Ingrassia: Well it depends entirely on the willingness of specific SL participants to let such distinctions go.
CDB Barkley: There's the cool people and ....
Kena Xeno: class here is based on time spent here and abilities
Kena Xeno: and reputation
Kim Pasternak: and attitude...
Kena Xeno: and perhaps looks and objects
Veritas Variscan: I have also met people in Sl for whom the idea of taking classes is simply an unthinkable situation, which I have never really been able to wrap my mind around, since so much here is so freely given.
Kieran Kiernan: I think how you look communicates a certain familiarity with the environment, too. So (as in RL) looks can be a problem.
CDB Barkley: I'd say class structures get re-layered here, not necessarily the same as RL, but it happens
CDB Barkley: seems natural order of things
Jonas Ingrassia: Yes it does. My point was that the ones that in RL would prevent us from meeting certain people are frequently gone in SL.
Kena Xeno: people love to classify--makes things simpler for them
CDB Barkley: agreed
Kim Pasternak: look at any report about Corwin... always comes across as tres cool... appearance... attitude... reputation... "seniority" means somethng diffeent in here
Veritas Variscan: Yes, this is very true, Jonas.
Kieran Kiernan: Agreed, Jonas.
CDB Barkley: Hey Corwin is like that in RL ;-)
Jonas Ingrassia: Not to digress further but to make distinctions is to start down the road to oppression. ;-)
Kim Pasternak: I diodn't say he wasn't! .. hehe
Veritas Variscan: And yes, reputation is key in here, it seems to me.
CDB Barkley: Yes... has much work been done in reputation dynamics in SL?
Mari Asturias: Sure... but how are reputations gained in here? Differently?
Veritas Variscan: I have encouraged many in here, who otherwise would not go, to take some classes, and they always habve a great experience.
RobertKlein Dogpatch: In WOW it has
Kim Pasternak: in some ways there's more celebrity
Veritas Variscan: there seems to be a lot of celebrity in here, absolutely
Jonas Ingrassia: I've had the curious experience of reuptation being manufactured for me by others in here based on RL details.
CDB Barkley: And inflation.... someone thought I built NMC Campus and I can barely do plywood cubes
Veritas Variscan: I think that your reputation develops when you do for others with no recompense except personal satisfaction and edification
Isa Goodman: lol
Mari Asturias: aw CDB.... I'm crushed
Veritas Variscan: funny, CDB!
CDB Barkley is outed
Mari Asturias: lol
Jonas Ingrassia: I agree Veritas -- and there is some semblance of a gifting economy in parallel here with the commercial economy, which is one of the reasons I compare it to Burning Man
Kieran Kiernan: I guess technically NMC Campus IS built from plywood cubes ...
Sendao Goodman: cubes are very important
Brett Bjornson: I knew it!
Veritas Variscan: When i first came here, it seemed that everyone was so busy giving things away, and I have seen that shift, just a bit, but still significant, at least in my opinion.
CDB Barkley: Yes, a bit too like early web days
Veritas Variscan: Yes, Jonas, totally true.
Veritas Variscan: nods
Corwin Carillon: people in SL are incredibly geneours with time .... nothing better
Veritas Variscan: a new edge seems to be developing, though, and it disturbs me a bit
Corwin Carillon: generous even
Aurili Oh: so...any closing thoughts, ideas reflections about plorking in sl for learning, enjoyment, community, etc?
Jonas Ingrassia: LIke a harsh desert environment SL is a new experience for all of us at some point, and there are still a lot of people here who recognize that.
Kieran Kiernan: Well, Corwin. It's kind of like a fax machine ... unless lots of people start to "get it" and use SL, it's just not as interesting/useful an environment.
Kieran Kiernan: So helping others is helping ourselves.
Veritas Variscan: I see a ton of people entering, and they seem to want it all right away, without spending time in SL - it bothers me...I learned almost everything by observing, becoming friends, listening, then doing for others
Brett Bjornson: We need better ways to get people in and have positive experiences in a short time
RobertKlein Dogpatch: SL provides all the rope you need to hang yourself?
Aurili Oh: great observation veritas
Jonas Ingrassia laughs
CDB Barkley: Those dynamics shift as the audience moves past early adopters
Jonas Ingrassia: yes Veritas.
Economic Mip: And more rope Robert,
Aurili Oh: i share that sentiment
RobertKlein Dogpatch: :)
Aurili Oh: it's really an experiential thing
Jonas Ingrassia: And there is a distinct difference in the mindset of an early adopter
Kieran Kiernan: They're reading, Veritas, that "everyone" is using SL ... then they show up, and (surprise!) it's hard to get used to the environment.
Veritas Variscan: Well, I am helping new to sl educators and lecturers, and while i help them i try to explain the culture
Kieran Kiernan: So some of it is press coverage, and people hearing about how people are rushing in here.
Veritas Variscan: Yes, I have been doing some orientations for educators
Veritas Variscan: and it is a shock to them at first
Aurili Oh: yes i have that experience too
Veritas Variscan: they don't get to have any FUN!
Sendao Goodman grins
Veritas Variscan: and that is NOT good
Brett Bjornson: It helps to read Gibson, Snow Crash, etc
Veritas Variscan: I flew around for two months, everywhere
Veritas Variscan: mostly alone, made few friends at first, watched, lsitened, read, learned, went to classes
Kena Xeno: why Brett?
Veritas Variscan: and I was hooked
Corwin Carillon: there are fun ways to learn SL though .. for example have any of you been doing the IBM Codestation quest?
Aurili Oh: there's a certain amount of basics to get before the fun sets in i find
Kim Pasternak: hehe- Snow Crash... might scare more away!
Kieran Kiernan: lol Kim
Brett Bjornson: They explain some of the basic concepts SL and other VRs are built on
Veritas Variscan: I have only visited Codestation for scripts, lol
Corwin Carillon: :)
Jonas Ingrassia: Joining groups really moves the experience forward more quickly I found. It's hard to begin to find what interests you without connecting with those who know more.
Brett Bjornson: Kim - only if your pizza is late!
Kieran Kiernan: I did the first two stages, but needed more learning built into the task.
Kieran Kiernan: Not running parallel. (My style of learning.)
Sendao Goodman: (if only they would add more groups)
Veritas Variscan: Well, i still think that a sense of wonder is integral to really 'getting' this world.
Aurili Oh: i agree veritas
Veritas Variscan: otherwise it's just a damn job
Jonas Ingrassia: I agree.
Kim Pasternak: yes.. more groups would be goods.. 25... too limiting
Brett Bjornson: Agreed!
Veritas Variscan: go to the JIRA and vote
Jonas Ingrassia: 25 is way too few.
Sendao Goodman: have to keep alts just to hold all the groups I want! lol
Corwin Carillon: anyone have their students try the Darkwood Trail?
Kim Pasternak: hehehe... seems we all strategise the same way aboput groups
Brett Bjornson: Teleportation Trail?
Corwin Carillon: yep .. thx brett
Veritas Variscan: sign into the JIRA and search the term GROUP then join the other 142 ppl who want more groups so far
RobertKlein Dogpatch: TP Trail is cool
Brett Bjornson: Yes, excellent way to intro SL
Kim Pasternak: except we can't eleport at university - crashes every time
Brett Bjornson: We should do one on education
Sendao Goodman: I think finding or creating a group to work with is really key.
RobertKlein Dogpatch: The new MDStyle Islands are cool as well
Jonas Ingrassia bets if they put it out to a vote in-world the votes for more groups would number in the tens or hundreds of thousands. :-P
Veritas Variscan: Yes, the educators' groups I joined proved integral to my sense of belonging in SL.
Kim Pasternak: ditto
Veritas Variscan: of course, since so many don't know about the Public JIRA on the SL website
Kena Xeno: where is teleportation trail?
Veritas Variscan: at the DARKWOOD SIM, Kena
Kena Xeno: thanks
Veritas Variscan: I think it belongs to the Vesuvius Group
Veritas Variscan: Rhiannon Chatnoir's buds, the gal who works with GlobalKids, a real good egg
Kena Xeno: thanks Brett--I seem to spend way too much time seaching stuff
Sendao Goodman: wb CDB
Aurili Oh: welll shall we start wrapping up or how do these end, or do they hehe
Webstar Snook has indicated consent to be recorded.
Kena Xeno: tx Econ
Economic Mip: anytime
RobertKlein Dogpatch: We all take our ADHD meds and go home :)
Alexondra Zenovka: lol
Aurili Oh: lol
Veritas Variscan: Oh by the way, there will be a Media Studies class at my island soon, kenny Hubble from Loyalist is running it, should be interesting, he's a nice guy and has good speakers lined up for it
Veritas Variscan: ha ha ha
RobertKlein Dogpatch: Who has the adderall?
Aurili Oh: great thank you
Veritas Variscan: SL is very ADD-inducing!
RobertKlein Dogpatch: yes it is
Veritas Variscan: one must battle it
Sendao Goodman: Nah, embrace it
RobertKlein Dogpatch: probably why we are here
Sendao Goodman: Learn to thread the pieces together
Veritas Variscan holds head in hands
Sendao Goodman: and bam you're 3x as productive
RobertKlein Dogpatch: LOL
Kena Xeno: bye all--thanks for a great discussion
RobertKlein Dogpatch: cya
Alexondra Zenovka: thanks
Kieran Kiernan: ciao, Kena
Aurili Oh: ty kena
Jarrad Voom: Bye Kena
Veritas Variscan: well, I do find the whole idea machine just gets rumbling, the more people you meet, so inspiring
Jonas Ingrassia nods
Aurili Oh: yes true
Veritas Variscan: this was great, thanks so much Corwon, thanks all
Veritas Variscan: ^ CorWIN ^
Aurili Oh: thank you
Corwin Carillon: thx Aurili!
CDB Barkley claps 4 paws
Aurili Oh: thank you for this marvelous space corwin and CDB
Veritas Variscan: chuckles
CDB Barkley: Great discussion
Aurili Oh: yes i agree
Veritas Variscan: always great stuff, CDB, thanks!
CDB Barkley: And if anyone wants to lead a future talk
Kim Pasternak: Thanks all!
Sendao Goodman smiles, "Thank you! Good to hear such a variety of thoughts hehe"
RobertKlein Dogpatch: Now that I know CDB didn't create all this my time here just seems so .... bland
Veritas Variscan: hmmm
Sendao Goodman: Off to work with me
CDB Barkley: or run a tour for the teachers buz, let me or Corwin know
Veritas Variscan thinks of topics
Aurili Oh: yiks
CDB Barkley: "where's the cubes?"
Kieran Kiernan: ehehe
Sendao Goodman: since this place is no-build, aww, can't plork :/ hehe
Sendao Goodman waves
Veritas Variscan: no, the question is "rotation? what rotation?"
RobertKlein Dogpatch: No plorking!
The meeting closed at 19:10 Linden time.
